Kubuntu has been my favorite Linux distribution since the very first release. It was made specifically for us KDE fans, branded with beautiful Kubuntu-specific artwork and themes, contained the best Qt-based software, and dared to be different. In a world ruled by Ubuntu, it’s given us KDE fans something to root for. Unfortunately, Kubuntu later became known as Canonical’s third wheel, and each release seems to steadily diminish in quality. What’s responsible for its current status, and what should be done to improve it?
Is Kubuntu Canonical’s “Blue Headed Step Child”?
The phrase “Blue Headed Step Child” has been used to describe Kubuntu for quite some time around the blogosphere, and the debate on whether or not the term has merit is never ending. This descriptor has originated from the idea that Kubuntu has never seemed to receive as many features as each Ubuntu release, and some of the most noteworthy features in Ubuntu often do not make the cut. It also has to do with Canonical not giving Kubuntu equal treatment in the release cycles.
Let’s be fair though, Ubuntu is Canonical’s main distribution, not Kubuntu, so that should be expected. Kubuntu is a “flavor” of Ubuntu that uses a different software set that caters to those that prefer the KDE environment. However, the amount of features that Kubuntu users miss out on is staggering, and should definitely be considered a problem. So, is Kubuntu the blue headed step child of Canonical? It would seem so, considering the lack of support Kubuntu seems to get and a severe lack of feature parity.
Kubuntu 8.04: LTS Status Stripped Away
The second blow to Kubuntu’s reputation was its LTS (Long Term Support) status being stripped away in version 8.04, supposedly caused by Kubuntu 8.04 being released around the same time as the big switch to KDE4. It was announced as follows by Jonathan Riddell:
Since KDE 4 is a major change to the platform, it is not currently at one of these natural rest points so would not be suitable for long term support.” He went on to say: “Instead, due to the very high interest, development efforts will be directed towards KDE 4 and releasing Kubuntu 8.04 with the option of using either KDE 3.5 or KDE 4.”
At first, I was actually happy with the decision, because I believed that not having to do an LTS release would take pressure off of the developers and allow them to give us the best KDE4 implementation they could. However, the more I thought about it, the less sense stripping away the LTS status seemed to make. For starters, KDE4 wasn’t even the default desktop, so why would it make the difference of 8.04 being an LTS release or not? In addition, the KDE4 implementation we received in the “KDE4 Remix” CD was not only terrible, but virtually completely unchanged from the sources. (There was no polish at all).
With that said, it’s easy to see that the LTS status of Kubuntu 8.04 being stripped away in vain was yet another serious blow to Kubuntu’s reputation.
Boring, Unaltered KDE4 Implementations Are Now The Norm
Unfortunately, each subsequent Kubuntu release from that point forward changed from having beautiful custom themes, wallpapers, and a login screen to having virtually no polish whatsoever. Sure, themes aren’t normally that crucial, but to Kubuntu it kind of is, as the reputation is already tarnished by the lack of feature parity with Ubuntu and no current LTS release, so having less polish certainly won’t help sway that opinion. The default themes in the KDE4 series are all great, though you can get the default anywhere. Kubuntu needs to stand on its own, like it used to.
From Kubuntu 8.10 and on, the custom themes and polish are gone, and the distribution has moved from a distro with a purpose to being merely ubuntu-minimal with KDE and Qt apps thrown on top. That’s not to say of course that the developers don’t do anything meaningful since they do give back to the KDE code as a whole and make it better for everyone else, but a lack of polish shows a lack of effort to an untrained eye.
With Ubuntu getting new wallpapers and GDM themes with each release, it’s a shame that Kubuntu cannot get that love too.
Wireless? Who Needs Wireless?!
Version 9.04 was quite possibly Kubuntu’s ultimate low, containing (again) an unpolished KDE environment, and an all new problem: Completely broken wireless. With all the complaining regarding broken wireless all over Launchpad, I’ve nicknamed 9.04 as the “Epic Fail” release and I consider it to be one of the worst distribution releases of all time.
So, what exactly happened? Well, it’s simple: If you use a laptop and think you’re going to browse the net wirelessly after installing Kubuntu 9.04, think again. It just doesn’t work. In my experience, the only way I could connect to my two wireless networks at home was to disable my wireless security altogether. I’ve tried WEP, WPA, you name it. I wasn’t alone, as this problem affected just about everyone trying to use Kubuntu wirelessly. The worst part of it is that this problem was known well before the final release, and hasn’t been fixed to this day. The only other way I found to connect to protected wireless networks was to install WICD. In retrospect, with Ubuntu 9.04 I had no problem connecting to any wireless network I tried, even on the same systems.
Of course, Kubuntu is bleeding edge, and problems are to be expected here and there. However, breaking wireless access for just about everyone is inexcusable. Why was such a failure allowed in a stable operating system? The world may never know.
The Future: Kubuntu 9.10
As soon as Kubuntu 9.10 was announced, I held my hopes up high that it would mark Kubuntu’s return to glory. Version 9.10 is definitely good so far, but still far from perfect.
When it comes to feature parity with Ubuntu, Kubuntu 9.10 will suffer more than it ever has before. Ubuntu is getting all kinds of neato stuff this time around, such as a new “Software Center”, a new login theme, icon theme, an edited GTK theme, and a bunch of really slick wallpapers. As you might have guessed, Kubuntu 9.10 will get none of that love.
Even worse yet is Ubuntu’s “One” file sharing service, which will allow you to store files in the cloud and sync them between your computers. It would totally rock if that feature was bundled with Kubuntu as well, since that’s a feature us KDE fans would love to have I’m sure. Unfortunately, like most other things, it’s specific to Ubuntu and us Kubuntu fans won’t be getting it any time soon. Do we not deserve it? Who knows. In addition, Ubuntu 9.10 even got a new XSplash boot theme which I’m told is pretty slick. Unfortunately, we won’t get that either.
Kubuntu 9.10 still suffers from wireless problems, but thankfully not as bad. In that aspect, it will be something of a required upgrade for users that suffered with wi-fi problems in 9.04. If that’s you, you’ll definitely want 9.10.
Other than Ubuntu stealing all the spotlight yet again, Kubuntu 9.10 is at least a step in the right direction, and could very well be the beginning of its return to fame as the KDE4 implementation feels solid for the very first time.
The Community Assumes Kubuntu
Another problem that Kubuntu suffers from is that people assume you’re using Ubuntu when asking for help or filing bugs. Often when I ask for assistance in the forums, I have people type fix instructions to me as if I was using Ubuntu, even though I specifically said which distro I was using. In fact, when the bug reporting system was changed recently, the instructions for filing bugs on Launchpad ignored Kubuntu altogether, I had to add a link to the Kubuntu instructions myself.
I’m hoping that the community will keep Kubuntu in mind which in turn will help it get ahead by quite a bit.
What Can Be Done?
I honestly believe that in order to get fully ahead, Kubuntu should sync with the KDE release schedule, not GNOME’s like Ubuntu does. Just like the Ubuntu developers give back to the GNOME codebase, Kubuntu developers give back to the KDE codebase which helps everyone else. Since Kubuntu syncs with the GNOME release schedule, it must be pretty hard to manage this.
Secondly, the community should not automatically assume Ubuntu in requests for help. Often, it’s specifically stated that the user is using Ubuntu, Xubuntu, Kubuntu, or whatever other *buntu right in the problem description.
Third, Kubuntu needs custom themes. It’s not that the themes that ship with KDE are bad, its just that you can get those themes anywhere, and all rolling releases ship with them. Kubuntu should stand on it’s own with at least a custom wallpaper and KDM theme. With Mandriva and SUSE customizing the environments quite a bit, it makes Kubuntu appear out of place as a KDE desktop. Even Ubuntu, it’s very own brother, gets customised themes each release.
Fourth, quality assurance needs to be improved. Reason being, serious bugs (such as wireless not working in 9.04) were reported months before release, yet never even fixed. That is not okay no matter how you look at it. Drastic regressions call for drastic solutions, even if it means foregoing a planned feature. Failures such as the wireless problem should be given the highest priority. Imagine a student such as myself missing a few days of homework due to not being able to get online while travelling. Not fun.
Fifth, Kubuntu needs feature parity with Ubuntu. These days, it seems the only features Kubuntu users get are the ones that are provided by default from having the latest KDE. How about Kubuntu having “One” support just like Ubuntu does? Why is the “Software Center” only in Ubuntu? This should be fixed.
Finally, Kubuntu needs more developers. If I was a developer, I would be thrilled to help out. More developers can put Kubuntu on the map as the best KDE distro out there, so I encourage all developers to lend a helping hand.
Conclusion
With all of the examples I’ve given, it’s easy to see why Kubuntu has earned a reputation of being Canonical’s third wheel, or blue headed step child. It doesn’t seem to get the attention it needs to reach its full potential, and the situation is getting worse, not better. As a huge fan of Kubuntu myself, I really hope the project turns around and reaches its full potential. Here’s hoping for a wonderful Kubuntu 10.04!
Jeremy is a Certified IT Technician that blogs at ITNewsToday.com in his spare time. He has over ten years of industry experience, and studies the IT industry every single day. Jeremy has become an open source enthusiast over time and is studying for his Linux+ certification. He lives in Waterford MI with his wife Krystal and son Alan.
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You are not serious about wanting the Kubuntu theme to change from the TOTALLY AWESOME “Air” theme to the not so nice themes (to say it in a polite manner) that Canonical makes, right??
I totally agree about the new Xsplash boot screen. It looks pretty good, and changing the colour palette to blue should be easy to anyone who has used GIMP for a few weeks.
@L4Linux:
I agree that Air is pretty good, but my point is that all KDE implementations come with it. Suse and Mandriva will have pretty impressive KDE themes when they come out, so I see no reason why Kubuntu can’t. However, Air can stay, but doing something small such as a custom wallpaper or login theme would go a long way. The point is that Kubuntu is almost completely vanilla in every way.
Beside i tried the latest development release of opensuse 11.2 and the kde 4.3 desktop env completely blow me away, even though there use the air plasma theme, there have tweaked it to look even more cool and to go with their awesome wallpaper. OOTB its the best KDE 4.3 implementation i have ever seen anywhere. That is how a KDE distro should be like (FYI I run kubuntu but i exported the opensuse wallpaper and their custom air theme which is what i use on my kubuntu jaunty)
I agree with you Jeremy 100%. I had guessed that kubuntu was a step child since they stopped creating any documentation for each release. then links in the wiki weren’t fixed for a long time etc. I also found the community to be very pro mono and pro GNOME.
Since I was using kubuntu on my laptop 9.04 was the last straw. I would urge everyone to switch to a KDE friendly distro like Mandriva or a neutral one like Arch which I finally chose.
Unfortunately almost ALL the main distros now default to GNOME with the exception of Mandriva. Opensuse switched to KDE as default after a near revolt amongst the community since Novel was forcing mono+GNOME.
bottom like if you like KDE support and contribute towards a KDE based distro like Mandriva otherwise expect to be a second member of the community and to be treated as such.
This is why I moved to Opensuse. IMHO, Kubuntu will never be on par with them (bluetooth, wireless, feature parity, athstetics). I love the Debian package format, but don’t like Gnome. Opensuse was the best compromise for me. If we had Opensuse KDE built with the Debian package management, I could die happy:-)
What I need is simple: a debian/deb based KDE desktop distribution with strong community and even company behind it. The Kubuntu is the only solution close to that and I really like what Ubuntu had done and expected them natually in Kubuntu. But I was disappointed even though I am still trying out each Kubuntu releases. In fact, I almost moved to Arch a couple of weeks ago.
I do agree with almost every words you said and just can’t find answer.
Mostly because of the “un-friendly” GPL license of Qt, people went to GNOME. Why people still stick to GNOME now? Maybe just the same reason people stay with Windows: don’t want to change.
I remember that Mark Shuttleworth even mentioned a Qt based Ubuntu. But no one really cares about it as in a GNOME community, it will never be done.
You should stick with KDE distros like Opensuse, Mandriva etc. Canonical can stick with their Gnome as prefered gui. As a KDE user I never ever think of using Kubuntu !
I hate feeling like a second class user. KDE has so much to offer, and should not be dismissed so easily for GNOME.
With each release i am closer and closer to stepping away from Kubuntu in favor of Mandriva or OpenSuse.
But familiarity of debian distribution and a potential of being
‘a Canonical Distribution’ keeps me with Kubuntu since 7.04
The ONLY reason Kubuntu is not THE WORST distribution out there is for the unbelievable AWESOMENESS OF KDE !
As a KDE fan, I have been using OpenSuSE, but tried Kubuntu in the 8.04 timeframe. It definitely feels unfinished. Then recently I discovered Linux Mint 7 Gloria KDE edition. It is a very well done KDE distro, and uses Ubuntu’s repositories. The only drawback is that it releases about 3-4 month after the Ubunut/Kubuntu release it is based on.
Try Linux Mint KDE. You may like it.
One more thing Ubuntu has in 9.10 and Kubuntu doesn’t have is Informative Installer Slideshow.
If you want to help Kubuntu please vote for this idea about Informative Installer Slideshow.
http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/21638/
If you want to help even more implement your solution and send it to Kubuntu developers.
sorry for ‘off topic’ ..
Great article but here is a question for you… Instead of just blogging, have you filed any bugs? Have you ran pre-release versions such as Kubuntu Karmic to help test it out? Have you worked on theming or anything else?
If you haven’t then you just wasted a lot of time writing a good article on what Kubuntu lacks. If you really care about KDE in ubuntu and Kubuntu as a distribution do everyone a favor and work on helping out.
@ Jeff Schroeder:
Yes, I am an active member of Kubuntu development, and I tested each release usually from Alpha 3 on. I’ve been actively beta testing Ubuntu and Kubuntu releases and filing bugs for several years now.
However, being an active member of the testing community or development team is not required for a blogger to write about something he or she feels strongly about. Bloggers/Reviewers/Writers aren’t required to help out in order to justify having an opinion.
The road to KDE 4 has been long and hard. Although it has given KDE the best platform available, the rewrite has ment gaps where tools were not re-written. Network management is the most prominant case there but there are several others (printer config, bluetooth etc).
Kubuntu is a KDE distribution, we use only KDE and are the only major distribution to do so. This means when KDE misses something we do too, we can only ship with what exists. Unforunately when Jaunty released there was no good KDE network manager. That hurts but there wasn’t any better KDE choice. Karmic is much improved.
I’m very glad we ship with the KDE artwork, I consider it the best out there and one of the strengths of KDE 4.
> If I was a developer, I would be thrilled to help out.
Cool, come join us in #kubuntu-devel, we need testers and community supporters and docs writers as much as anything else
@Jonathan Riddell:
I’d be honored to help you and start developing Kubuntu. Coding is what I want to do. Right now I work two jobs and go to college full time, so I don’t have much time to offer, but as soon as I do, I’m on board for anything I can help out doing. That would be TON of fun! Thanks for the invite, that means a lot to me.
I agree wholeheartedly with you Jonathan. I use Kubuntu for several reasons (in no particular order):
- It builds on a very strong and up-to-date GNU/Linux.
- The Kubuntu developers are very fast in packaging the newest KDE updates.
- And – as Jonathan says – it is released with the KDE theming and artwork. Not all these annoying changes that other distros add. In KickOff there is a small logo saying KUBUNTU KDE. A very non-intrusive branding
I actually kind of disagree with many points in that post.
First, i like my kde 4 vanilla. it’s really good, no need to add custom patches (if needed, do them upstream, everybody will profit). Same for that ubuntu one and software store stuff, i don’t need nor want it. Same for those new icons, wallpapers etc. Kde4 looks GREAT the way it is, unlike gnome (or at least the ubuntu version of gnome), so of course they needed some cleanup/refreshing. Well, i wouldn’t say no to a kubuntu wallpaper, but the ones that come with vanilla kde4 are just great (you don’t have to use the default air one, there are really nice other wallpapers installed by default).
My actual problem with kubuntu are the bugs. I’m not always sure if they come from upstream or not, but the stuff like the wireless problems are really bad, i wan’t those to be fixed, no need for custom kde patches.
So in conclusion my advice:
Keep kde4 vanilla, it’s great the way it is, no need to waste manpower to do that stuff, there is alot of work going on upstream. But, try to make the basic stuff like networking work, make the base solid.
@ Wolf Beat:
I agree with you about KDE looking great already, but please keep in mind that we don’t have to shift from the Air themes just to put extra polish in. For example, we could keep the Air wallpaper default but add a bunch of community wallpapers that the user could use if he or she wishes. Things like that would probably keep both sides happy. Community themes that could be used as an option would also rock.
Sorry for the second post, but i saw something else i disagree.
Kubuntu is in perfect sync with kde right now, usualy a kubuntu version comes out when kde 4.X.2 ou 4.X.3 is out, so you get a nice bugfixed release. I mean seriously, you wouldn’t wan’t to ship the .0 version all the time. So in that way, couldn’t be better.
In regards to Kubuntu shipping with the latest point release:
That’s not always a good thing. The latest KDE 4.3.2 update that just came out has broken quite a bit for me and made things considerably worse. Thankfully, Kubuntu Karmic doesn’t have the upstream problems I’m experiencing, as I am experiencing problems in unaltered KDE in distributions such as Arch. For example, ever since 4.3.2 my desktop doesn’t manually refresh itself when I save or delete a file. In my case, 4.3.0 was much more stable.
I am running the 32bit Kubuntu Jaunty on one partition of this laptop, and the 64bit Kubuntu karmic on another. I spend 99% of my time on the 64bit Karmic because it is faster than the 32bit Jaunty by a factor of 1.5 to 2x. KDE on my Karmic is at 4.3.2 and I have to agree with you — it is the MOST AWESOME desktop I have every used, on any platform.
While Jaunty is a “stable” release I find that Karmic, as of the 10/14/09 updates is equally stable. I have a dynamic desktop on top of the Air theme and every 15 seconds I am presented with another stunningly beautiful background image. Dolphin is fantastic. I’ve switched from Thunderbird to KMail, and I spend as much time in Konqueror on the web as I do with FireFox. While KNetWorkManger worked well for me through most of the alpha series, it began misbehaving shortly before Karmic went beta, so I switched to wicd and have had NO wireless or network problems since. I am in the process of switching from apps dependent on GTK2+ and/or MONO to only KDE4 apps.
I have PostgreSQL 8.4 installed and working against it is an application written with QtCreator, a superb gui rad tool every bit the equal of MS VC++ 6.0, the tool that I used at work for years before I retired a year ago. The two major problems I have are that Stellarium’s F2 configuration dialog is a garbled mess, and SecondLife doesn’t run at all on Karmic, but both behave perfectly on Jaunty. The problem is, of course, related to those apps compatibility with the ia32 libs.
Basically, Kubuntu IS KDE 4.3.2, so saying Kubuntu is bad while KDE4 is AWESOME is a non sequitur, since KDE 4.3.2 is the user interface for Kubuntu and aside from KNM every other KDE4 app that I use behaves well.
What I fear is that articles like this are used by trolls and KDE haters as yet another opportunity to pile on with senseless bashing and statements like “I’m sticking with KDE 3.5.10″ or “I’ll wait till KDE 5″, as if either of those options are realistic. No one is writing new apps for KDE 3.5.x and the only “help” those who use it will get are updates and security patches. Most of the complaints I read are based on the fact that one cannot manage KDE4 using the same methods they used on KDE 3.5, and attempts to do so end in failure and result in rants which say more about the ranter than KDE4. No one was born with an innate knowledge of how to run KDE 3.5, or any other desktop. One either has to read documentation or learn by trial and error. Whining and ranting in forums and blogs, instead of posting bugzilla reports, is counter productive.
I agree with you 100%.
A new custom theme won’t take long, some guy has made, just a week ago, a KDM and Ksplash theme that looks like the Ubuntu version:
http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php/KubuntuVision?content=113319
@Rub3nmv:
See, that’s the point. Something like that could have been adopted into the main Kubuntu release. That would rock!
i do mostly agree with You. Accept themes. Default kde4 desktop is beautifull. It can compete on any level with win7 and osx leaving ubuntu “new wallpapers and iconset” in the the last centry . Screwing around with themes will make it look like kde4 in opensuse witch well sux. In my opinion kubuntu should work as close as possible with kde devs making it better. At this time there is no real kde-sh distribtion. It is sad.
Personally I think the people maintaining Kubuntu do a good job.
Network manager always seems to have problems, some of these are general and will affect you no matter what front end your run, some of these are specific to the front end, and it is not Canonical’s fault if the native front end on KDE has different problems than the Native front end in Gnome.
Canonical developers have a lot of say and do a lot of heavy lifting, but they still want to leave some amount of stuff to the community so they can focus the attention of their paid developers in areas where they feel they can maximize their efforts. The majority of those efforts are independent of Gnome/KDE, etc… and could just as easily be included in any of the *buntus.
Ubuntu One could just as easily be installed after the fact, same with Software Center. In it’s current form does Software Center even provide any advantage over the native front end for Package Kit?
I don’t understand the idea that Kubuntu should follow the KDE release schedule either. There are smaller point releases every month, bigger releases less often, and lots of K* stuff that follow their own schedules independent of KDE releases. On a 6 month schedule it doesn’t really seem to make that much difference, if some significant update doesn’t make the feature freeze for one Kubuntu release, it will get into the next release. Setting Kubuntu even farther apart from the other *buntus doesn’t really seem all that great to me, just my opinion.
Later, Seeker
I’ve always found Kubuntu underwhelming. After my first experience or two I switched to debian testing (sarge, at that time, I think) and ran that a long time under KDE.
I’ve been using 9.10 since Alpha 5, and have muddled through OK, with the latest dist-upgrade being last night. After one update/upgrade, I lost X11 altogether (not the first time on a Ubuntu box, either) something which suggests some very poor pre-testing on Ubuntu’s part (seems to have affected all variants). Later KDE disappeared completely from kdm for at least a week and I had to manually install kde-full to get access back. Fortunately, I had access to X11 via xfce and fluxbox.
Were I not running a climate model that will probably take until early November to finish, I would probably be typing this on a squeeze-box (debian testing) rather than Kubunt/Xubuntu. By then, 9.10 should be released, and I won’t decide before, but I’m currently inclined to install Squeeze. Kubuntu is still uninspiring.
Other debian-derived KDE-centric alternatives are Sidux (Debian sid) which I used for a couple of years, or Mepis64, which seemed to have a rather limited repository last spring. Slaclware 13 has a nice KDE 4 implementation, but I hate dealing with Slackware’s package management, and I normally run BOINC models 24/7. BOINC is easy to install on debian and debian-derived systems, installing it on Slack boggles my weak mind.
I’ve been using Karmic for a couple of weeks now. When I call it the best Kubuntu ever, I say so with the understanding that Kubuntu leaves a lot to be desired. Karmic is a lot closer to being a “good” KDE distro, provided you tweak it to undo all the stupid things present by default. Here’s my current laundry list of complaints:
* The default theme for QT4, QT3, and GTK needs to be QT Curve. QT Curve itself could be themed to resemble the current incarnation of “Human” (just pick a better color). Using QT Curve would get instant consistency between almost every kind of App you could run.
* Now that the “Crystal” window decoration is back in ship-shape, default to that (again) with transparency on.
* Desktop should default to folderview mode. To make the launchers work with drag and drop, the folderview needs to default to /home/user/Desktop, instead of desktop://
* Any plasmoids present need to be common things a mortal might actually want to keep. Maybe a Picture Frame set to slideshow the Pictures folder, maybe a calculator, a weather report, an RSS feed of CNN or BBC.
* Set KDE to double-click mode, rather than its default single-click.
* With certain exceptions, the selection of default Apps needs to be identical to Ubuntu, or a better counterpart. Firefox, not Konq. GIMP, not Krita. Kwrite instead of Kate, KCalc instead of speedcrunch… (though I would prefer Kopete and KMail to Empathy and Evolution).
* Set the kickoff button to be an Ubuntu logo. –Especially since it is trivial to do so.
* Hack it so that drag and drop is the same “intelligent default” action gnome does, rather than ask the user whether to move, copy, or link. Non-engineers want it to just work without an extra click.
* Use the same default background that Ubuntu uses (especially since the last couple of releases had a background that didn’t suck, despite being brown). Again maybe change the color scheme.
* Unless the KDE network manager is in complete feature parity (or better) against the Gnome counterpart, use the one for Gnome. The KDE network manager in Karmic would let me configure PPTP VPN, but not actually connect.
* Generally speaking, don’t be afraid to use an app intended for Gnome, if the QT based one is not as good.
* Default should be start with an empty session, which is what most people are used to.
* Don’t default to “military” time.
* Don’t let anything default to starting the week with Monday. The few users out there who want the week to start with Monday can change it themselves.
* Trash can plasmoid needs to be in the taskbar as it is in Ubutnu.
Currently, Kubuntu does not stink after you make 800 changes. The problem: It should not stink out-of-the-box.
re “What I need is simple: a debian/deb based KDE desktop distribution with strong community and even company behind it. “:
SimplyMepis
we need KDE/OS
i’ve said that before, and i said that again.
we can use kubuntu as a base (for example), tweak it, improve it to reveal the best of KDE 4.
We see so many Ubuntu based distro that try to tweak the Gnome (like LinuxMint) to best their suit and improve it.
Why no Kubuntu based distro?
or, build it from sracth..but that would be difficult and take long time.
for me, personally, take puppy linux or core linux as the based. Now, we will have efficient linux os with KDE 4 on top.sweet
The problem with your suggestions, Blaine, is that they’re only your opinions, and people’s tastes vary. Suggesting them as if they’re the definitive way for Kubuntu to “not suck” just isn’t right. For instance:
1. QtCurve: I much prefer Oxygen over QtCurve for KDE4, and QtCurve for GTK+ only just so it fits in a wee bit better; a true Oxygen for GTK+ would be even better (e.g.: gtk-qt, if it weren’t as prone to crashes)
2. Desktop in Folder View is so KDE3. Default is better once you get used to it (and either put more widgets into it if you’re into that kinda thing, or remove the widgets present if you’re a minimalist; it’s flexible that way).
3. Firefox > Konq in general, yes, but I’d say that Pidgin > Kopete (and both >> Empathy) also, and I’d say that Speedcrunch > KCalc. Again, people’s tastes vary.
4. Trash can plasmoid is useless; just right-click and delete in Dolphin, or use the ‘delete’ key on the keyboard. No reason to clutter up the taskbar with that. (BTW, to Kubutu devs: the Quick Access plasmoid was a great one to add; never saw it before Kubuntu, and it’s a great to to get into Dolphin in the first place!)
And so on…
The only thing I (and I would think most people from this country) would agree about are better defaults for US users: 12-hour time format and weeks starting with Sunday. It should be a simple matter to determine who is a US user based on time-zone during the install.
Awesome. Another blog post about how bad Kubuntu really is. Jonathan Riddle comes along as usual and tries to say how great Kubuntu is. Some other ignoramus assumes the author hasn’t filed any bug reports. And he thinks that Kubuntu can only get better if bug reports are filed. No. It won’t happen. Bug reports are filed and largely ignored. Not completely ignored but they might as well be.
So Mr. Riddle, next time you have a complete show stopper bug, instead of just blaming it on everything/everyone else find a solution. Thats what distributions are supposed to do. Use nm-applet if need be. Fedora did that for one release and I didn’t hear many complaints about it. But you chose to ship a pile of turd and in turn were treated the same.
I’ll continue to contribute to distributions that actually try to fix issues. I’ll file all my bug reports with those distributions. Kubuntu and I parted after one gruesome year together. I’ll never allow myself to use it again.
Having read through this I just want to give my 2cents worth.
- The Kubuntu forum is by far the most helpful and friendly forum anywhere in my humble experience.
- I agree that Kubuntu doesn’t get all the attention but I don’t need most of those “new features” from ubuntu. The most important new features are included in every *ubuntu release.
- The wireless issue is a big problem, but one can go the linux-mint path and use netowrk-manager (gnome) until KDE gets it right.
- Mepis is great and very stable and as a result lagging behind in kde4.x.x delpoyement.
- Opensuse, I used suse from 5.00 until 9.x then found debian distros (knoppix, mepis, kubuntu, etc) and never looked back. They do a lot to make the boot process look nice but I only look at that once a day if that. And they can keep yasp and their forums.
- I to prefer KDE vanilla. On earlier versions (before kde4.x.x) Kubuntu was doing to much “tweaking”.
So, for all the above reasons and some more I am sticking with Kubuntu and its great forum.
Or was it yast?
It has been a while
The themes issue should be pretty easy to fix. Who wants to do some nice themes for Kubuntu?
Know how to use inkscape or create themes for KDE? Got a good idea? Let’s do it!
Kubuntu 8.04: LTS Status Stripped Away
Er… It wasn’t stripped away. The KDE3.5 version was LTS.
The KDE4 was nothing but a preview edition, and that’s how they sold it.
@TGM:
No, Kubuntu 8.04 was not an LTS release in any version or form.
Regarding the networking issues. They were not a fault in Kubuntu itself, just the knetworkmanager. If you installed nm-applet for instance, everything worked like it was supposed to (well, apart from actually having to run a gnome applet inside KDE)
@ Obscenity:
While I agree the problem with Kubuntu wireless may have been knetworkmanager, I still blame Kubuntu itself for including a faulty network manager in the first place, especially considering the one they used in the previous release worked fine! (At least for me). They could have even shipped wicd as default, no one would know the difference since it would be made to blend in with KDE. Even though wicd isn’t a Qt app, including it would have been better than shipping a terrible release.
@Fintan
“Opensuse, I used suse from 5.00 until 9.x then found debian distros (knoppix, mepis, kubuntu, etc) and never looked back”
Well, maybe you should have… OpenSuse 11.1 just blows away Kunbuntu 9.04 when it comes to KDE
I happen to love apt/deb packaging system (I would use nothing else for my server needs), so at each new Kubuntu I try to make the switch from Opensuse and… fail to do so. As much as I hate rpm, OpenSuse is still ahead when it comes to KDE. Plus I don’t have to worry about KDE not being a core concern for OpenSuse.
As for the forum, I rarely use any of them so I can’t really say if one is better. All I can say is that I wasn’t impressed the last time I browsed for info about multimedia packages for Kubuntu: it was all written for Gnome, nothing difficult to have it work with Kubuntu but still it shows how important Kubuntu is in the *ubuntu universe. Mind you, I wasn’t too happy with that on OpenSuse either… Think it’s time for me to investigate seriously distros like linux mint or pclinuxos… Sad truth is that I don’t have enough time left to tinker with silly things like multimedia, that should just work.
I think KDE is the best GUI. I cut my teeth on Knoppix then installed OpenSUSE before finding Kubuntu. I have stuck with KDE during the switch from 3.5 to 4, although I did try out Gnome on my wife’s laptop.
Lately I been getting disillusioned with Kubuntu and here is why.
BUGS: This is the main complaint. How can you release a version with a known bug that has a simple work around. If KNetWorkManger can not be fixed in time then release it with a temporary work around to give people wireless access. Do not ever release a version with a major component broken if there is an alternative! People get annoyed and then leave. Less users means less incentive to keep the distro alive and Kubunt will slowly starve.
Poor relation of Ubuntu image. Why? Because of bugs, lack of desktop tweaks from standard (even small ones not set to default would be good) and linking into new Ubuntu features. Image is everything, Canonical know this and are very careful with Ubuntu’s image but not so with Kubuntu.
KDE ideology at the expense of Kubuntu is madness. If the KDE program does not work or exist find an alternative that does. An example is the use of Open Office instead of Koffice. KDE has loads of very interesting programs but from my experience they either don’t work properly or crash. I don’t have time to file bug reports to try and debug the problem when I have a presentation pending. I try and send crash reports but they often don’t go especially when behind a proxy.
I filed a bug report once on a LTS and was eventually told “I closing this bug report because the problem has been fixed in the Alpha 4 of the next release(not a LTS)”. So why report bugs when I don’t understand what people ask you to do, don’t have time to search the bug reports and chances are it will be fixed in the next release. This bit is really aimed at Unbuntu as a whole not just Kubuntu and is defence against the next person saying why don’t you report bugs.
The net result of all this is that for the first time in long time I am considering trying a new distro. In fact the only thing stopping me is the Debian package manager that I have grown to like. I am not sure if I will try the new Karmic or jump to Mandriva, update or installing fresh is about the same chaos. The Kubuntu forums are also a good reason to stay.
I have a big fat grudge against kubuntu for leading the trend toward abandoning kde3 when it still had a signicant user base. Plus, when I quoted Aaron Siego in the Kubuntu forums to suggest that KDE3.5 had a future, I was attacked as a possible microsoft mole, leading to a nasty argument, (I’m not proud of how I responded) which led to me getting banned.
Part of me loves to see Kubuntu get a drubbing in the press, but I can’t go along with suggesting that they’re in a “downward spiral” because of vanilla KDE themes. On my hardware, it seems that KDE4 is easy to get wrong, meaning that certain distros drag along pitifully, and other distros are two steps behind. Kubuntu is releasing regularly, staying current, and performing reasonably well. It’s doing a good job at the above, and if it’s neglecting custom themes, I think that demonstrates.
These days, my primary operating system is a Slax live CD with a hard drive partition mounted as /home, because, as I think I’ve indicated, I still love KDE3– but I want to keep tabs on KDE4, which I consider important for the future of the desktop, and I want access to all the software that comes with a debian-based OS, so I’ve got Kubuntu installed on my hard drive. I think it’s the best KDE4 based distro I know, even though I still hold a bit of a grudge.
Correction: I meant to say:
” It’s doing a good job at the above, and if it’s neglecting custom themes, I think that demonstrates that they’ve got their priorities right.”
What’s wrong with just installing KDE on Debian? I’m typing to you from a Lenny based KDE install and it seems to work a-OK.
@Ean:
Out of curiosity, how long does it take for the latest KDE to show up in the repos in Debian? I considered that.
It usually starts a couple of days before the official announcement, so that at the date of the official release all packages have already been uploaded and distributed to mirrors.
Are you guys seriously rating the quality of a Linux distribution by wheter it gets a non-default wall-paper (even-though the KDE default by user own admition is good)????
@ Fredrik:
No, read the whole article. The theme issue is just one of the many problems Kubuntu has with getting fair treatment.
(and no I didn’t read all the comments, only the first three or four)
It’s your fault to rely on Ubuntu. Use Mandriva if you want an updated, polished and beginner friendly KDE-based distribution, or use Debian KDE for a simpler implementation.
I don’t think kubuntu should be just a flavor or a version of ubuntu. It should be just as equal of a choice as gnome ubuntu, with the same detail and attention to every aspect of the system. If Ubuntu really wants to be a distro for everyone they need to get their act together and properly support kubuntu like its a proper choice.
Most other distros offer them equally and create the same added features for both. Take Mandriva for instance, kde is their main desktop, but the features that mandriva offer can be found in all desktop environments, kde, gnome, lxde, ect.
I like KDE, and that the primary reason I won’t use Ubuntu, It’s KDE version is just not up to par. Maybe Kubuntu should separate itself from ubuntu. Become its own independent derivative.
my first distro i used was kubuntu 7.xx. After 9 months of constant crashing (for 14 or 15 of them only a hard reset helped) and ruining some of my data i will never ever again touch ubuntu again. After my mishaps with kubuntu i found a small kde based debian distro called mepis. Althought it doesnt sport the latest frills it actually works and has never crashed on me since i used it. Instead of testing it uses the stable release but there is a backport repo if you want later versions.
ATM they are at 8.1 with kde 3.5. Because the support cycle for the 3 series is ending the next mepis 8.5 will be kde 4.3x based
Give it a try if you want a clean stable kde debian based distro.
just my 2p
I switched to Fedora Core for my laptop, I couldn’t deal with this lack of support for KDE. I have Fedora Core on most of my other computers too, although 2 of them dual boot to Kubuntu as well. There is no reason to stick with a distribution that doesn’t support KDE. I will wipe Kubuntu off all my systems if the next release doesn’t improve things.
I have to second the notion of using Mandriva or OpenSuse instead of Kubuntu if you want a nice KDE environment. Fedora 11″s KDE is even in better shape. I tried to like Kubuntu but the polish of OpenSuse and Mandriva won me over, not to mention the hardware detection of mandriva works better for my hardware. I am running mandriva 2010 rc2 and experience zero plasma crashes. The sound works. The control center is second only to yast in OpenSuse. I do miss the PPA’s though.
The Kubuntu team was criticized for tweaking KDE too much in previous releases, but they went too far in the other direction. KDE4 needs tweaking. Kubuntu could beat out Ubuntu. But I don’t think the gnomies are going to let that happen. So I left the ubuntu community.
KDE4 should eventually beat gnome. I think it already does. So kubuntu can experience growth or it can watch the gnome switchers go to fedora, opensuse and mandriva.
Come on Jeremy,
If you think you getting the shaft using Kubuntu… then don’t use Kubuntu. Use Arch and install all the KDE goodness you want. Or better yet create a new KDE distro that uses aptitude/deb packages, looks like there are quite a few people in the comments above that would be interested in such a distro. That’s the great thing about linux, if you don’t like the way it works, you can change it. make it exactly what you want. If you don’t have the time or motivation to organize and do it yourself, fine, but don’t whine that there’s no one out there doing it for you.
I have been lucky enough to find the perfect distro for my preferences, and that is crunchbang linux, a stripped down version of ubuntu that uses openbox and lite gtk apps. I still do some customization, but it’s almost perfect out of the box.
You do have the power to organize and create a KDE distro you are personally happy with. Empower yourself.
@ qchapter:
I already decommissioned my desktop from Kubuntu and moved it to Arch just before writing the article. I may use Arch on my laptop too, if I can figure out a way to handle wireless properly after updating. So yeah, I’m already “empowered”.
The biggest mistake Canonical made was to make Gnome the ‘one true desktop’. If I wanted to be told what to use I would use one of the proprietary OSes. In truth, Ubuntu is no different than any other distro in that KDE is just another set of packages, so why do they insist on confusing everyone with the U/Ku/X/Edu/buntu garbage?
I almost dumped Fedora years ago when they wouldn’t stop mucking with the default KDE setup and breaking things, but things are pretty good now even though the system tools are still Gtk based. I’ve tried out the last few versions of Kubuntu and I haven’t seen anything there that would make me leave Fedora.
I sat my folks down with KDE4. They quit in frustration after 30 minutes or so. I don’t think they even managed to connect to the net.
I sat them down with GNOME. They’re still using it with few complaints 3 years later.
KDE, for all its technical merit, is an utter usability failure. It’s a platform trying to be a desktop.
I hope that KDE backers are able to get past the ZOMG PLASMA RUOOLZ phase, eat some crow, and make something that people actually want to use. Spraying transparency all over the place and having pretty backgrounds isn’t enough.
Solution 1: make a debian based KDE specific distro.
Solution 2: use a distro with KDE as default desktop (Mandriva, Suse)
For solution 1 i have some comments, i’m trying to do an independent distro based upon LFS , with RPM packages and obviusly KDE as the default desktop…
But, this is the real thing, I cannot compile KDE without glitches… While GNOME is easy to build… Some years ago when i tried to do my linux from sources i chose KDE for its building simplicity..
Now a different story, CMake is a PITA , QT4 is so difficult to build an has more requirements than OpenOffice, Firefox y GNOME all together just for kdelibs you need something like 24 or 25 different packages, the most of them are all spread around the net…
GNOME has all the packages for building in its sites…
Well just my 2 cents!!
First of all, Kubuntu proves that KDE cannot be ignored — even if a couple of companies decide to treat it as second-class citizen in their distros.
Secondly, KDE4 has grown into an excellent desktop environment and brings a freshness to the whole desktop. Frankly, GNOME shell, although looks slicker, GTK+ seems incapable of providing “fresh” look to the desktop. Sorry guys, no matter how many dust-like themes you can come up with Oxygen+Air beat them hands down.
I personally believe its time for Canonical to start making the switch to KDE4 as the default desktop on Ubuntu. With all the various Qt/GTK+ integration packages around, it shouldn’t be too hard to make next Ubuntu release with KDE4 “look” like the current one and then alter it gradually.
How come sidux is mentioned in only ONE comment?
I moved away from Kubuntu to Sidux and I am happy. Debian Sid + sidux stability and forum is just blissful.
I have some systems running here at home and there are basicaly two distros I use: Kubuntu for my girfrinds laptop and gentoo with KDE on the rest (my workstation, mythbox).
Although the network problems and some problems with the PowerDevil, I cannot manage to get them working any better if I do gentoo. I have the full freedom to configure the system and several years of experience but it just do not work. I end up in a kde-based system where power management and wireless networking fails. Actually, installing kubuntu 8.04 makes it work until I install updates.
If I install ubuntu instead everything works fine, except for the problem that neither me or my girlfriend like gnome so we decided to sacrifice the wireless and go for kubuntu
Snow Leopard is a rip off of BSD and Windows 7 is a rip off of KDE so don’t troll here.
I find it quite amusing that some people still bother with desktop Linux. It had its chance and it blew it, it’s dead on the water now. With Snow Leopard and Windows 7 out there, there is no contest anymore.
Go back under your bridge, troll.
While I agree that Kubuntu does not get much attention from Canonical, the faults you mention IMHO are more to do with KDE trends rather than problems with Kubuntu itself.
Regarding Kubuntu 8.04′s LTS status, you may have misunderstood the facts behind the decisions to remove the LTS moniker… there are two important ones:
(1) KDE 3.5 was EOL’ed, and it was unknown how many more releases there would be (in hindsight, there has only been one, affirming this was a good decision). It’s unreasonable to expect Kubuntu’s developers to have to deal with bugs for 4 yrs that may never get fixed.
(2) KDE 4 was at KDE 4.0, which was a “developer preview” and not ready for end-user consumption. You seemed to have forgotten how many people hated KDE 4.0, qlont all the claims about it not being ready. With the inevitable churn that was inevitable with later KDE releases (4.1, etc), it wasn’t reasonable to backport them. Again, it’s also unreasonable to expect Kubuntu’s developers to deal with this for 4 yrs. If they had made 4.0 the default there would have been much, much more complaining and derision.
Regarding unaltered themes/wallpapers/etc, this is a trend from upstream to unify KDE’s branding. See: Sharing a brand by pinheiro and building brand together by aseigo. In short: the powers-that-be in KDE’s upstream want KDE to look uniform across distributions.
Regarding wireless in Kubuntu 9.04: when Kubuntu was released, there simply was no good GUI wireless management application available. KNetworkManager was still a KDE3 application, and the NetworkManager plasma applet was under heavy development. Again, what was released was the best that was available… But if you used GNOME’s NetworkManager applet, it worked great. If you used wicd, it worked great. If you used wpa_supplicant’s roaming mode (as I do), it worked great.
I forgot to mention another KNetworkManager problem: beside being a KDE 3 application, it also did not work with NetworkManager 0.7 (there were a huge number of changes between 0.6 and 0.7).
It strengthens the point: what was released in Kubuntu 9.04 was the best that was available at the time.
Agree about lack of network capability in 9.04, although i never experienced problems myself, I know loads did. That said, what was the solution if upstream project was unstable? They would have had to either use wicd or gnome’s network manager pulling in loads of gtk2 stuff or used the old netowrk manager and pulled in kde3 libs. I think that the problems were inherited from the upstream project, leaving kubuntu with the choice of either using kde 3.5.10 for full functionality or using mix of all kind of crap to get going-there isn’t even a stable cd burning solution or firewall gui that uses kde 4 libs.
I don’t agree about the aethestics-franky it’s so easy to change a wallpaper that it doesn’t matter. I’d rather kubuntu spent time on functional development to push back upstream (which they do)than superficial stuff-kde 4 looks fine anyway.
I totally agree with the article. Ubuntu is one of the best Gnome distribution (if not the best of all), but we can’t say the same about Kubuntu. It’s far behind OpenSuse or Mandriva. As a KDE fan (since SuSE 5.2 long time ago), I hope that Canonical seriously put an eye on Kubuntu (in fact, this article appeared in the Ubuntu weekle newsletter…)